#355983 - 2004-04-19 19:59:48
有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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我今天替自己卜了一個盤，但有些地方不知如何解釋...
想請問：
1.若卜卦盤上月亮在29度(代表危機)被同在29度的太陽燃燒，這樣應該怎麼解釋比較好...?
2.卜卦盤上福點合相上升，又該做何解釋...?
感謝回應!!!
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"咪咪貓貓"就是養了兩隻貓把屋子裡弄得都是毛的意思...
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#355985 - 2004-04-20 11:55:37
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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亢龍有悔
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註冊: 2001-09-21
文章數: 979
來自: 台北市
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#355986 - 2004-04-20 12:03:52
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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您這樣說我好像懂了...(我是說我那個卜盤) 再請教，就公式來看，日月同度時，福點一定合相上升，這對解釋上有無特別的寓意...? 好啦..我現在要出門去買某一本等了很久的書了 
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"咪咪貓貓"就是養了兩隻貓把屋子裡弄得都是毛的意思...
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#355987 - 2004-04-20 12:35:39
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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一元復始
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註冊: 2002-03-24
文章數: 1617
來自: 台北
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>若卜卦盤上月亮在29度(代表危機)被同在29度的太陽燃燒
事與願違,參考看看.
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天步占星
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#355988 - 2004-04-20 14:17:43
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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飛龍在天
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註冊: 2002-09-18
文章數: 419
來自: 台北
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回應:
再請教，就公式來看，日月同度時，福點一定合相上升，這對解釋上有無特別的寓意...?
後學引用一段對福點運用的解釋
Copyright 1996 © by Robert Hand
Posted in the Newsgroup alt.astrology in February and March 1996.
The Lot or Part of Fortune
Let me conclude this note by giving a very brief description of what the Part of Fortune is. The Part of Fortune is used to describe the basic way in which the individual is physically connected with the surrounding world. It is one of the significators of the body and health, and it is the primary significator of prosperity, and also career as it relates to prosperity. But the method of using it will come as a bit of a surprise. This is one of the most important discoveries that Project Hindsight has made. In my next note I'll go into that.
The Lot or Part of Fortune
Part 2
In the first installment of this series of notes I described the method for computing the Part of Fortune and said a bit about what it meant, that it was the key to understanding the native's prosperity and career. In this installment I will go further into its symbolism and say more about its proper use according to the Greeks.
As I have said, the Part of Fortune is a primary indicator of prosperity, but it is more than that. It is created out of the longitudes of the Sun, Moon, and Ascendant, and therefore is composed out of the three of the most important places in the chart (only the Midheaven outside of these three is as important) and as a result becomes as important as they are. In modern astrology there is a tendency to regard the Part of Fortune as a minor point in the chart, but this was not the case with ancient astrology.
In ancient astrology the Ascendant is the primary indicator of the physical body and health. The Moon is also a very important secondary indicator about the body. But there is a difference between them. The Ascendant was considered to be the body at its most physical, material level. The Moon was the living aspect of the body, in fact soul, but soul incarnated in a physical body. The Part of Fortune, being composed of both of these along with the Sun, is also an indicator of the living, physical body and its relationships with the physical and social world in which the native lives. Its capacity to signify prosperity comes from this. If the Part of Fortune is in good condition, the relationship between the native and the physical and social world in which he or she lives is one that supports the native and enables the native to live well. If the Part of Fortune is in poor condition, the native has a harder time living in relationship with the world that supports the native. The same can also be said about the relationships of the Part of Fortune and health.
However, in the case of both significations one must keep in mind that no one indication in the chart, not even the Part of Fortune, can be taken by itself as a total indicator of any area of life. For health one must also look at the Ascendant, its ruler, the Moon and its ruler. Also the sixth and eighth houses as indicators of illness and death respectively have strong indications for health. For material prosperity one should also look at the second house, the tenth house, and their rulers.
That said, however, the Part of Fortune is well placed when there are benefics or dignified planets in the same sign with it (the fact that "sign" is referred to here is very important as will be seen later on), or these same kinds of planets aspect the Part of Fortune. [Note: if the terms "benefic" and "dignified" are strange to you, they will be explained at the end of this article.] Also it was said to help the Part of Fortune if it was in a sign that was ruled by benefics, and any point in a chart is helped by being in a sign ruled by a dignified planet.
The Part of Fortune is not so well placed if it is in a sign with malefics, especially if the malefics are debilitated. Squares, oppositions, and conjunctions with malefics are also not considered to be very good. As a modern astrologer I would have to say that such indications do not mean poverty or bad health so much as they mean that the native will have to work harder or has a narrower range of possible routes to success. But given those two considerations, the results can still be very positive.
As my concluding comment in this installment, let me say that the Part of Fortune is not merely a point like the planets or the nodes. It is the start of a house system. The sign of the Part of Fortune is the first house of the Fortuna system, and the first house of the Fortuna system extends from 0 degrees to 30 degrees of the sign in which the Part is located. And each of the other houses of the Fortuna system also extend from 0 degrees to 30 degrees of their respective signs. In the next installment I will describe what the ancients said should be done with these houses.
Terms Used:
Benefic
A planet which easily produces results which would be generally considered favorable or "good". Whether these results really are good for the native will only become clear over time. Certainly benefics produce a desired result more easily in most situations than malefics (see next entry). The natural benefics are Venus, Jupiter, the Sun by trine or sextile aspects, and any planet that is well aspected and dignified (see note).
Malefic
A planet which does not easily produce results which would be considered "good". Generally speaking malefics are not so much "bad" as it is that they require more thought, more consciousness, and more skill at managing life than the benefics require in most cases. In fact the two main malefics, Mars and Saturn, are necessary for building character and strength. But either of these handled without consciousness leads to less than fortunate results. The natural malefics are Mars, Saturn and the Sun by conjunction only.
General Comment about Both Benefics and Malefics
Ultimately whether a planet is a malefic or a benefic depends upon a number of factors. Planets that are naturally one or the other can be converted into their opposite by other circumstances in the chart. One cannot assume that Venus and Jupiter will always produce good results, and that Saturn and Mars will always produce bad results. This is a old classification and must be taken somewhat freely. In the end I like Ptolemy's definition of the terms best. According to Ptolemy, a benefic is a planet whose natural influence leads to moderation and balance. A malefic is a planet whose natural influence leads to extremes and imbalance.
Dignified and Debilitated
Planets may be dignified (made stronger) and debilitated (weakened) in a variety of ways. In this article I mainly refer to dignity and debility by signs. Planets are dignified when they are in signs in which they rule or are exalted. They are debilitated when they are in signs opposite these. Any regular beginning text of astrology will list these signs. There are other dignities and debilities as well. See Lee Lehman, Essential Dignities, Whitford Press.
The Lot or Part of Fortune
Part 3
If the Part of Fortune is a first house marker, our natural tendency as modern Western astrologers is make the degree of the Part the cusp of the first house and to set up equal houses from the Part using the Part as an Ascendant. However, from the material we have found so far in Project Hindsight what the ancient astrologers actually did was a bit different. And what they did was characteristic of house division in all of the oldest texts including, we now know, Ptolemy himself. As I have already mentioned, the houses of the Fortuna system were measured from 0 degrees to 30 degrees of the sign that the Part of Fortune was in. This practice, which has been dubbed whole-sign house division, was not only used with the Part of Fortune, but also with the Ascendant itself! The entire modern problem of house division did not exist for the ancients. They did not see the signs as separate from the houses. The houses were simply roles that the signs took on depending upon their relation to some point that marked one of the signs as being the first house or place ("place" is the proper translation of the word that the ancients used for house as we use the word). That marking point was called in Greek horoskopos.
If that word sounds familiar, it should. It is the basis of the word 'horoscope', and its literal meaning is "hour marker", not "watcher of the hour" as often stated in the texts. The hour marker was any point that had the ability to mark a sign as a first house or place for some purpose. In modern astrology we have sun-sign astrology, a technique not widely respected by professional astrologers. Yet in sun-sign astrology we see an ancient practice used (simple-mindedly to be sure) in a modern context. In sun-sign astrology the Sun is a horoskopos in exactly the ancient manner; it marks the sign of the Sun as a first house or place. All other signs become houses or places with respect to the sign of the Sun. The only problem with modern sun-sign astrology is that the solar horoskopos was supposed to be used to describe a native's father, not the native, and then only if the native was born in the daytime.
The ancients in the West used the Ascendant and the Part of Fortune as the major hour markers. The ancients of the East in India used the Ascendant and the Moon is the primary hour markers. What is interesting here is that the Part of Fortune is a part associated with the Moon! Apparently these practices are related.
The following is a quotation from Paulus Alexandrinus a 4th century author:
"And Fortune signifies everything that concerns the body, and what one does through the course of life. It becomes indicative of possessions, reputation and privilege."
And Vettius Valens who lived at about the same time as Ptolemy wrote the following:
". . . the Lot itself will possess the power of the Horoskopos, that of life; the tenth zoidion [sign] from this, the power of the Midheaven, that of reputation; the 7th, the power of the Descendant; the 4th, of the subterraneous zoidion, and the remaining places will possess the power of the 12 regions."
In another place he wrote "We have also found the 11th place [sign counted as a house] from Fortune to be an acquisitive place, a bestower of belongings and goods, and especially when benefics are upon it or are testifying [aspecting]."
These statements are holding up in practice. I have found that the sign of the Part of Fortune and its ruler give very good information on profession as it relates to making money along with the tenth house (counted in the usual manner from the Ascendant). The tenth sign from the sign of the Part of Fortune is also very good for helping to describe the actual social role that the occupation serves. The eleventh sign from the Part has a special role in determining both how well and by what means one earns money. Astrologers who actually earn money from doing astrology have been seen to have Mercury in the sign of the Part of Fortune, or the eleventh sign from the Part of Fortune, or ruling either of these. Mercury is the ancient ruler of astrology before Uranus was discovered. And I would have to say that it still works! The ancient writers also said that the Part of Fortune and the houses derived from it had to do with the body, health, and actions that are done spontaneously or on an emotional basis.
Another interesting Fortuna house is the seventh. While it may have something to do with relationships, its primary symbolism seems to derive from its being the opposition to the Part itself, and the effect is stronger if a point in the seventh Fortuna place is closer to the exact opposition to the Part of Fortune. One of the oldest significations of the seventh house was death because the Sun set there and its light was extinguished. The Fortuna seventh of course is not a sunset point, but since the Part of Fortune has something to do with the body, the opposition to the Part seems to have something to do with illness and physical problems.
Much more work needs to be on the Part of Fortune, and this can only be considered a taste. However, we are not done with parts yet. There are many other parts as well, and many of these also serve as hour markers. We will take up some of these in the next installment.
A final note: all the passages used in this text are from the Project Hindsight translations of the ancient Greek texts unless otherwise noted.
Robert Hand 2/16/96 - 3/20/96
Copyright 1996 © by Robert Hand.
Mr. Hand has been doing translations of ancient and medieval astrology texts now for almost three years with Project Hindsight and that effort has published over 2000 pages of translations and commentary. If anyone is interested in further information on Project Hindsight, they have a web page at Project Hindsight. Small warning: have your modem at maximum speed. The graphics take a long time to load.
編輯者： jengjiu (2004-04-20 15:22:25)
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占星論斷實例： D網占星猜謎實例、 D網預測歐巴馬當選。 以簡馭繁、鉅細靡遺又細膩準確的論斷與教學，讓你悠遊於占星世界 知過居線上繪製占星合盤、推運圖提供各種占星合盤(synastry、composite、Davison relationship chart)、中世紀占星與現代推運排盤(firdaria、transits、solar arc、progression、solar return、lunar return)、八字排盤 更多的預測、卜卦、擇日、占星文章請到 心星看世界如欲轉載文章，請與我聯繫 [email protected]知過居主人
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#355989 - 2004-04-20 14:28:49
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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六六大順
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註冊: 1999-12-21
文章數: 6453
來自: 開開心心的天堂國度
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日月相會的確會造成命度和福點相會，不過阿拉伯點的容許度只有一度，
大部分合朔的情況其福點都不會完全和上升相會。
所以，在未蒙其利前已先受其害，因為日月合朔使得月亮的的光芒完全消失，
月是身主，月亮失輝什麼事情的進行都受到阻礙，
如果真能完全相會，那是另當別論，因為此時不稱為combust反而稱為
cazimi，力量非常強，並沒有不好的意思
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************************************************************************* om a vam ram ham kham om a vi ra hum kham om a ra pa ca na 紫微神咒 星平透壬穿禽網站我的FB網頁om namo manjusriye namah susriye nama uttama sriye svaha namah saddharma pundarika sutra svaha namah Suvarṇaprabhāsottamasūtrendrarājaḥ svaha namo Mahamayuri Vidyarajni Sutra namo Karunikarāja Rāṣṭrapāla Prajñāpāramitā sūtra namo Caturmahārājakayikas om a hum om a vam ram ham kham a vi ra hūm kham a ra pa ca na om alolik svaha om gagana sambhava vajra hoh om trum svaha Taiwan Love & Peace 禮敬諸佛 稱讚如來 廣修供養 懺悔業障 隨喜功德 請轉法輪 請佛住世 常隨佛學 恒順眾生 普皆回向 ************************************************************************* 每自作是意 以何令眾生 得入無上慧 速成就佛身 --妙法蓮華經
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#355990 - 2004-04-20 17:31:54
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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感謝大家熱情回覆，我把卜盤貼上來好了... 請有興趣的大大幫我看看...? 情況有些複雜... 是這樣的，我目前是博班研究生，負責執行一個研究計畫，這個計畫同時也是我的論文，但這個計畫的經費也支援其他研究生在辦公室裡所使用的設備，所以在我忙不過來之餘請其他人協助一下應該還算是合理的事吧....但最近在學校裡就是為了工作的事情起了一些糾紛，總覺得其他人幫忙幫得很少而且心不甘情不願，好像覺得辦公室提供他們那些資源讓他們愛怎麼用就怎麼用是理所當然的事.... 我承認我發了一頓很大的脾氣是我不對，對這件事處理不當也是我不對，但是好像不完全是我的錯，而且認識那麼久，只因為我發了這一次脾氣就把我當成難搞的人，可見平時雖然大家相處得不錯，但沒什麼深交，事實上還是沒多少情分可言.... 目前我已經幾乎搬離辦公室了，最近待在家裡要"偽造"一份報告書先用來交差(因為資料不夠，這還是經過老師指示的)，老師都清楚事情是怎麼樣，但他是標準天秤座，從來只會當好人而已.....  ，我現在已經跟老師提出要更換論文題目，因為實在很難做下去... 卜這個盤時我問的問題是"老師會不會叫我回去?"，不過其實我已經不想回去了...  我自己是覺得這個盤把情況呈現得很清楚，但有幾個地方有疑問，包括那個日月合相和福點合相上升的問題，另外還有一個比較奇怪的是，為什麼日月水和龍頭會集中在5宮???  
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#355991 - 2004-04-20 17:34:48
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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小妹孤陋寡聞
請問cazimi是什麼...??? 
編輯者： 咪咪貓貓 (2004-04-20 17:42:53)
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"咪咪貓貓"就是養了兩隻貓把屋子裡弄得都是毛的意思...
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#355992 - 2004-04-20 17:38:51
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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若事情真是這樣，我也不意外...
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"咪咪貓貓"就是養了兩隻貓把屋子裡弄得都是毛的意思...
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#355993 - 2004-04-20 17:44:13
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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#355994 - 2004-04-21 02:19:15
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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飛龍在天
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註冊: 2002-09-18
文章數: 419
來自: 台北
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請不要稱我為大大
後學只是愛好占星的初學
cazimi的意思可參見版主大人整理的資料中（占星基本教學）
當兩者合象在17分內 力量會大增
與combust有度數及解釋上的差異（版主已解釋）
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占星論斷實例： D網占星猜謎實例、 D網預測歐巴馬當選。 以簡馭繁、鉅細靡遺又細膩準確的論斷與教學，讓你悠遊於占星世界 知過居線上繪製占星合盤、推運圖提供各種占星合盤(synastry、composite、Davison relationship chart)、中世紀占星與現代推運排盤(firdaria、transits、solar arc、progression、solar return、lunar return)、八字排盤 更多的預測、卜卦、擇日、占星文章請到 心星看世界如欲轉載文章，請與我聯繫 [email protected]知過居主人
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#355995 - 2004-04-21 21:46:09
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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那...cazimi翻成中文是什麼...? 我查不到這個字ㄝ 聽起來很像某種日本料理.... 
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#355996 - 2004-04-22 02:06:43
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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三陽開泰
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註冊: 2000-02-01
文章數: 3217
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29度是要特別注意的地方，
代表某種狀態即將改變，要轉換的現象，（需視問占事來解釋）。
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...
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#355997 - 2004-04-22 03:19:56
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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"the heart of the sun" 只查到這個，其他的解釋都差不多... 總之就是與太陽合體而力量大增的意思吧... 究竟是危機還是轉機呢..? 有興趣的請儘量猜吧.. 事情有新的發展我就來回覆... 
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#355998 - 2004-04-22 08:34:12
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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四季平安
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註冊: 2001-08-13
文章數: 5656
來自: 孤獨峰
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跟太陽太接近不是會焦傷嗎...
西洋跟印度不是都討論到焦傷的問題嗎
編輯者： 阿正弟 (2004-04-22 08:34:30)
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#355999 - 2004-04-22 11:58:36
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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Cazimi A planet within 17 minutes of the Sun, by conjunction, is said to be cazimi, and at the "heart of the Sun". This greatly strengthens the planet. It can be likened to a man who has been raised up to sit beside the king. Combust A planet is said to be Combust when it falls between 17 minutes and 8.5 degrees by conjunction from the Sun and is in the same sign as the Sun. Combustion debilitates the planet. The exception to this rule is Mars, as it is similar in nature to the Sun, being both hot and dry like the Sun. Under the Sun’s Beams Under the Sun's Beams (USB) is a term used in Traditional, Electional and Horary astrology.A planet is said to be USB when it is between 8.5 degrees and 17 degrees from the Sun.A planet USB is said to be mildly afflicted. 我只知道這些，有沒有用我個人是不清楚... 
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#356000 - 2004-04-22 13:23:54
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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六六大順
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註冊: 1999-12-21
文章數: 6453
來自: 開開心心的天堂國度
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行星和太陽相會的意義是行星的力量將乘太陽的光芒而發射出去
此時行星的力量將減低，而太陽會把行星的力量吸收而帶有該行星的色彩
但在cazimi的情況下行星的力量並不會減低，可以視為太陽與該行星融為一體
不但可以將行星的力量乘陽光發射出去，並且可以增加行星的力量
果老星宗有一段話描述得很好可以參考，大意是說：
太陽就像君王，而行星如同臣子，一旦臣子和君王相遇時，臣子都會臣伏不動，
一旦君王離開，又會恢復本身的光芒。
意思是說，比如木星為吉星，在陽光下會失去它吉的特性，土星為凶星，在陽光下也會
失去它的凶性，無論何種情況都會使木、土兩星變得無能，一旦木、土星為主星時，
也就不吉了，但這個時候，因為木、土星在太陽的旁邊，猶如被剝奪權力的臣子，
其職權被君王收回，此時，太陽就擁有木、土兩星的能力
這樣解說應該十分清楚了
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#356001 - 2004-04-22 14:49:58
Re: 有兩個卜卦盤解釋上的疑問想請教...
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或躍在淵
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註冊: 2003-08-05
文章數: 338
來自: Chiron
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抱歉，還是有點疑問
請問您最後那段的描述是針對cazimi嗎...?
因為若是"權力被剝奪"的臣子，那不就如同被貶一般，應該是偏向第一段所描述的"行星力量減少"，比較像是我會完蛋的意思...
但cazimi是"行星力量增加"，比較像是我的權力雖被收回，但我的老闆會罩我的意思...
編輯者： 咪咪貓貓 (2004-04-22 14:51:39)
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